Nations Forum

A Banking System! 22 replies

Jing said on: 2010-01-15 11:02 am
3257 Days, 16 Hrs, 53 Min, 9 Sec ago
During my time playing as a user, I felt I was really vulnerable against attacks.
I knew that if I get attacked once or twice, the attacker could potentially rape my military, take all my funds, and drop me down 50 lands or so.
This generally screws you up completely if you play a high maintenance strategy like the ones users used for tech.

There are ways around this, of course.
The first and most common is your clan VIPs or just VIP friends in general. You could ask them for some cheaps where you can disband for some quick cash.
That would generally put you back in the green, but this won't last long unless you explore all the way back to your original land count.
If you do not have that, then the second way is to start doing your minor researches for money. Say your esp is at 20, you start doing that for money.
This hurts your tech, but it allows you to recover... Probably.
There are other ways like banking, but I rather not go into that one, since it's nearly useless.

So how about we get ourselves a banking system?
Just like in TL or BNT, why not give us a place where we can safeguard some of our cash for later use? Where you can deposit your money there to protect it and where you can withdraw it whenever you need a helping hand.

Of course, to prevent abuse, a balance is needed to enforce it. Otherwise, everyone would just keep all their money in the bank.

How about percentage system?
The lower your original cash is, the more you can deposit!
Say at 1m, you can deposit all of 90%.
Say at 10m, you can deposit all of 70%.
And it keeps getting lower and lower.

This could potentially replace the banks in nations, which is all but useless.
Its user friendly. As a matter of fact, its designed to help the user. It will be somewhat obsolete with VIP lowlanding so we don't worry about that.

If I may be so bold to suggest one more, how about a loaning system too? A mortgage on your land? And if you don't pay back all that money, 'all your lands are belong to us'. :)
Just a thought.

Tell me what you guys think.
If you like it, give suggestions of how it could be improved?
SM-sHiNrYo said on: 2010-01-15 11:07 am
3257 Days, 16 Hrs, 48 Min, 24 Sec ago
Provided it's not a sperm bank its good =P jk.

On a serious note, I think it's a great idea.
GuildaMage said on: 2010-01-15 11:08 am
3257 Days, 16 Hrs, 47 Min, 18 Sec ago
I would say charge a 10% banking fee. ;/
WeaponX (Mod) said on: 2010-01-15 12:35 pm
3257 Days, 15 Hrs, 20 Min, 24 Sec ago
I've always thought something like this should be added. However if there were to be a bank, I think there'd have to be a cap as well as a fee, that way you're not hoarding 50 million dollars in there.

[Added at 01/15/2010 12:35:26 by WeaponX]
999 forum posts o.0
SM-sHiNrYo said on: 2010-01-15 02:09 pm
3257 Days, 13 Hrs, 46 Min, 10 Sec ago
NetNexus 10% goods and services Tax (GST)
Moonshine said on: 2010-01-15 02:34 pm
3257 Days, 13 Hrs, 21 Min, 2 Sec ago
i like the idea. it also helps you practice safe budgeting. ;)
WeaponX (Mod) said on: 2010-01-15 02:50 pm
3257 Days, 13 Hrs, 5 Min, 16 Sec ago
Another thought would be a clan bank where members contribute whatever amount, and the SuperAdmins decide what to do with it. Rather than a funds transfer feature from user to user (was going to post something like that earlier), throw money into the clan bank so it can only be distrubuted by the SuperAdmins to a clan member in need of cash. This could possibly help prevent the sale of cheap military on the market for disbandment to make some money, as well as provide even more a level of trust as to who should recieve a SuperAdmin spot.

Something here would also need to be added as to how much can be transfered, and no transferring to yourself. Let the Admins deal out a *small* portion of the funds in case a SA doesn't get on for some time, this way you don't have a clan full of just SA's and Admins, the User/Admin ranks would actually be effective. Just a thought.. feel free to build on it. :P

One weakness with Jings idea is I feel that if the user is beat down to literally nothing, his/her bank should be able to be robbed or looted, whereas if there were also a clan bank, this would be protected by the many Nations in the clan therefore impenetrable.

[Added at 01/15/2010 15:51:03 by WeaponX]
Another idea to carry over with the clan banking system, would be to allow the user to access the funds that they themselves put into the clan bank. So in a way, it's still a personal bank as well as a clan bank. However I do not know how this would work if a SuperAdmin/Admin transfered a certain amount of funds to a user, and then another user went to withdrawl an amount of their funds and they not be able to because their money was sent elsewhere.. Maybe when a SuperAdmin/Admin sends the funds to someone, take a certain percentage of everyones pool that way not just one person is getting their money sent to the broke user. If that makes sense, it did it my own head. :P
SM-sHiNrYo said on: 2010-01-16 02:02 am
3257 Days, 1 Hr, 53 Min, 21 Sec ago
Well to make sure people do not abuse the banking system there should be a low chance of financial crisis. This should half the person’s money in the bank by half. Maybe increase esp would reduce this chance.
Gemz said on: 2010-01-16 02:22 am
3257 Days, 1 Hr, 32 Min, 33 Sec ago
new espy should be able to loot banks.

This makes espy useful
Jing said on: 2010-01-16 03:13 am
3257 Days, 41 Minutes, 52 Seconds ago
First, I just want to get a banking system in Nations, but if it will allow bank heists, then how about setting up an international bank?
If the spy successfully robs a bank, then he takes a little of money from everyone who uses it and still earn a profit.
The number of espionage researched will depend whether the heist is successful or not AND how much money you can get.
Say there are 100m total in the bank. A successful bank heist will be around 500k - 10m.
That way, no one will lose too much money and esp will be research again.
Mini695 said on: 2010-01-16 12:25 pm
3256 Days, 15 Hrs, 29 Min, 28 Sec ago
I like the sounds of both a clan bank and a personal bank.

As i was reading the personal bank, I was thinking a clan bank would be great.... and as I went down, there it was....

I am all for this,

A small tax or banking fee would be nice. Fair I guess...

Would VIPs get a better rate...that would put a damper on the game for regular players like me...make it a little unfair, but that is up to you MODs.

When will this start? Or will it even take place?

[Added at 01/16/2010 12:27:34 by Mini695]
Jing said on: 01/16/10 3:13 am
(9 Hrs, 12 Min, 27 Sec ago)
First, I just want to get a banking system in Nations, but if it will allow bank heists, then how about setting up an international bank?
If the spy successfully robs a bank, then he takes a little of money from everyone who uses it and still earn a profit.
The number of espionage researched will depend whether the heist is successful or not AND how much money you can get.
Say there are 100m total in the bank. A successful bank heist will be around 500k - 10m.
That way, no one will lose too much money and esp will be research again.


Sounds cool
WeaponX (Mod) said on: 2010-01-16 12:55 pm
3256 Days, 14 Hrs, 59 Min, 33 Sec ago
These type of things are entirely up to the Admins.

Gemz, the idea of an espionage tac to break into their bank would be an awesome idea to go along with it, Jing and I were talking about that in chat yesterday..

Take away the clan bank idea completely and just focus on the personal banking system. Put a storage cap of maybe 10-15 million, as that is *plenty* of cash to get restarted. A 15% tax to put it into the bank, maybe a 2%-5% tax each week you have money stored here, or a daily 1% tax. Heck, maybe even a 1% interest, who knows. Something like that.

After the bank is up and running, an espionage tactic to break into someones bank, I think should require something around 10-15 turns as the payoffs could be great, or you could get the shaft and get nothing.

Personally I do not think Vips should get benefits of lower taxes with this as they also still have the market to profit from.

Anyway I say once we all decide on a solid layout, we send this up in a help ticket. Mind you there is no guarentee that this will be put into effect or even started, I don't know anything about coding but I'm guessing something like this would take quite a bit of coding, testing, coding, testing, blah blah blah. Could be a crapload of work.

[Added at 01/16/2010 12:58:06 by WeaponX]
I dunno about the international bank though, you'd be robbing your own bank. :P
Moonshine said on: 2010-01-16 02:01 pm
3256 Days, 13 Hrs, 54 Min, 9 Sec ago
well..i think you two should talk to the admins about pursuing this because i think this game could use something new. also goliath will have some good input on this.
AK47 said on: 2010-01-16 04:02 pm
3256 Days, 11 Hrs, 52 Min, 38 Sec ago

i like the idea.

new idea:

"like" or "dislike" button for threads!! =D
DaisukeNiwa said on: 2010-01-16 07:04 pm
3256 Days, 8 Hrs, 51 Min, 6 Sec ago
If you do a clan bank, you kind of erase market use a bit.
Jing said on: 2010-01-16 07:25 pm
3256 Days, 8 Hrs, 29 Min, 26 Sec ago
It won't kill the market.
VIPs will be able to use the market and reap the benefits of selling and buy.
_ElessaR_ said on: 2010-01-17 12:21 am
3256 Days, 3 Hrs, 33 Min, 53 Sec ago
I see lots of great ideas, but I seldom see those ideas getting implemented.

I understand the admins have their own busy lives. If only the mods can help with the implementation, as in they have admin powers, this site would be a gazilion times better.
Jing said on: 2010-09-05 12:11 am
3025 Days, 3 Hrs, 43 Min, 27 Sec ago
I'm bringing back an old idea.

Users need a way to safeguard their funds.
Stoutn said on: 2010-09-05 01:54 am
3025 Days, 2 Hrs, 1 Min, 10 Sec ago
I generally like the idea, though I think the percentages should be much lower for store funds in a personal bank, say 25% per day? You will need funds to research with, and the excess can be stored for later use, or in a clan bank where others can access funds when needed, such as after a massing, with permission of course.

Though as stated some time ago, all up to the admins, someone will need to implement the changes, and all the fine tuning needed to integrate it into the game successfully.

That's my thoughts about it atm, though I may be suffering from sleep deprivation ;)
_ElessaR_ said on: 2010-09-05 06:13 am
3024 Days, 21 Hrs, 42 Min, 2 Sec ago
Yes, I really would want a banking system for users. The situation right now is, if a user gets massed, its usually GG for him.
Goliath said on: 2010-09-05 08:12 pm
3024 Days, 7 Hrs, 42 Min, 38 Sec ago
Probably the most reasonable, balanced banking system (I'd use more of a "savings account" approach) would be:

- Allow a deposit of any size at any time.
- No tax up-front.
- You must specify a length of time (number of turns) for which the money will remain in the bank.
- There must be a minimum number of turns specified for a deposit (5 days/900 turns is probably a good number for this at the start of the round--scale it downward towards zero as the round grows older).
- Money would accrue compound interest (5%-ish per day/180 turns? Maybe this could be influenced by a stat or general tech level). Therefore, the more turns you designate money to stay in the bank, the more you'll receive later on.
- The important part: You *cannot* withdraw deposited money before your specified number of turns are up. (Or, allow for early withdrawals at a severe penalty--50% would be a good test figure to start.)
- Individual deposits could remain separate (and could be managed separately, with different amounts and durations).

This would accomplish quite a few things:

- Grant players another viable method of accruing large sums of money without using the market.
- Prevent use of the bank as a "hiding area" for money when anticipating attacks. You would lose access to the money for a while, and banking during a war could backfire or prevent speedy recovery.
- Demand strategic management of funds. How much should you deposit, and for how long? When will you need it again? How much do you need to hang on to in the meantime?

I need to emphasize here that new banking functionality should *not* be used as a "band-aid" for the problem of monetary losses being percentage-based. This should be addressed through the combat system itself.

[Added at 09/05/2010 21:35:53 by Goliath]
As an aside, I realized after I typed that plan that it would just allow for players to specify the minimum deposit period *every time* without consequence. So, you might want to use a flat percentage interest on a non-linear scale for deposits, so there's a real trade-off for creating a longer-duration deposit. Even something as simple as squaring the number of days might work:

1 day deposit = 1% interest
2 days = 4%
3 days = 9%
4 days = 16%
5 days = 25%

That way, there's a difference between, say, $10000 being deposited twice for 2 days and once for 4 days. Example:

$10000 + 4% + 4% = $10816
$10000 + 16% = $11600
Jing said on: 2010-09-12 10:27 pm
3017 Days, 5 Hrs, 27 Min, 52 Sec ago
Nice idea.
Jing said on: 2010-10-21 02:16 pm
2978 Days, 13 Hrs, 38 Min, 56 Sec ago
New idea.

I think there should be a limit on how much a person could put in their bank. However, I also think the limit shouldn't be the same for everyone. It should be governed by the amount of land you have on you at the time of your deposit.

This is because people with high land tends to need a lot more funds to recover after getting zero'd.

For example, if you have around 200 lands, your limit should be around... 10m? But for the lowlanders with around 10 lands, their limit should be around 10k or so.

I don't really have that much user experience to give anything more than rough estimate, so some other users could suggest some more solid numbers to go by.

By the way, I just talked to Blake on the chat and he might start working on a banking system, so if you like this idea, help flesh things out and input any suggestion you have.