Nations Forum

Are the following exploiting game flaws? 105 replies

Pic said on: 2008-05-09 10:08 pm
3871 Days, 8 Hrs, 31 Min, 50 Sec ago
I’m going to list a few things that people do in the game that got me thinking about what the intent of the game really is.

Feel free to add any other exploits/flaws in the game (be specific) & then say if you think each are all right. Try to not get stuck on the “We’ve always done this” argument. (one of the following got me thinking about this topic; and the rest came to mind of comparable things that some of us do.)

So in no particular order:

1) Putting army on the market when you do your turns (so you make more food/oil/turn):

How to do this:
You know this one; VIP’s put their army on the market when they do turns, so they make food and oil as if they have 0 army.

Post the army on the market; do some turns, post the food& oil you just made on the market; then they take the army off of the market once you’re done.

Advantage: the VIP’s make more food and oil then they should be able to (without giving up any security), thus giving them more $ to use on base tec. (or not doing the arg/ref needed for the nation+army in the first place)

(Possible fix: making it that you can’t take down something you posted in the last 24h)

-- -- -- --

2) Changing your tec partners numerous times [45X in a round] to get more tec from your tec partners. (6)

This one is newish, (as in done for the first time, for most of the round).

How to do this: Get some pals who will help you along with this.

Start out with 3 tec partners on day1, get them to do all of their turns, on day 2 dump them, (just after they have done all of their turns that day), then (right away) become tec partners with 3 new players (each with 125 turns.) Each time you switch you can gain aprox 0.7 tec point (or about 2.1 tec each 2 days for all three) X 15 times you could do this in a round [every 2 days] = 31.5 (base) tec points.

Advantage: it’s like having 4.5 tec partners, as you get overlapping turns from the new tec partners.

(Possible fix: Have a delay of 8h before you can get any tec from a new tec partner. (or 12h, or 16h))

-- -- -- --

3) Setting up your turns so that your $ doesn’t go below $0 (I call this the cash bug)

How to do this: When your loosing tons of $/turn [when you have tons of off and def] (like say -$10,000/turn) – save up at least 116 turns, then have just enough $ to do 12 off/def + 4 military – then because the game doesn’t let you go below 0 cash, you save the negative effects of loosing all of the money from having so much off & def.

Advantage: every 116 turns, save up to $1.16 million. (That’s if you loose
$10,000/turn, larger advantage if you’re loosing more, less if you’re loosing less.)

(Possible fix: allow people to go into negative cash – you can’t buy anything, or do any tec, but you could still bank to get out of the hole – or wait until something of yours got sold on the market.)

-- -- -- --

4) Putting your army on the market as a storage place for the end of the round:

As a VIP I can take my army and place it on the market, not to sell – but to ‘save it up for a rainy day’.

Advantage: VIP’s save up cash by having army on the market – users have to keep huge piles of cash on hand.

(Btw, I would suggest lowering the prices allowed on the market to 80% of purchase price to prevent this (if we wanted to change it)).

--------------- --------------- ------------

So, what do you think; are all of these fine? Some of them? None? Should any of them be fixed?

(I do 1 & 4; not 2 & 3) – After thinking about it – I think all should be fixed.

What do you think?
Space-Monkey said on: 2008-05-09 10:22 pm
3871 Days, 8 Hrs, 17 Min, 14 Sec ago
I think many changes need to be made to the game, but honestly id say these arent up there in importnace, but should be concidered.
Loki said on: 2008-05-09 10:25 pm
3871 Days, 8 Hrs, 14 Min, 24 Sec ago
Ok first thing is first I think you need to decide what you want Pic, it is hipocritical to have "Bring back 'classic' nations!" in your siggy and yet be trying to change the rules of the new nations.

Anyone that was here back in classic nations knows that the rules were ALOT more lapse then they are now and yet you want more rules?

Secondly. I think if VIP's didnt have some advantages alot of people wouldnt buy it, so 1 and 4 are in the best interest of not only the game but everyone that wants to play it because without the VIP's the site woud have alot more trouble to run it.

As for the techie swapping while everyone can do it I dont see it as a massive issue, as with everything else in nations there are more than one channel of thought and as such there will be conflict as to the interpretation of the rules.

0 cash bug is smart play. I dont believe it is correct either, but while it is there it is smart play, and I am not sure it would be all that simple to make it so your cash could go into the negatives. Infact I think it would cause many many other issues that would destroy nations as we know it, but then thats just a guess based on the zombie bug where your population goes into the "negatives"

Just my 2 cents. Honestly I think that it is more work than it is worth to try to patch up small issues when there are large ones kicking about.
Pic said on: 2008-05-09 10:36 pm
3871 Days, 8 Hrs, 3 Min, 23 Sec ago
Nations of today is nothing like how it used to be – it almost feels like 2 different games. I think ‘nations 2’ should be a classic version – that’s what I’ve been calling for.

Now with that said – I pushed hard to ban the 1 plane attacks (ppl might recall that crusade that ended with it being fixed within a month.)

Also, I think the tec swapping is the worst abuse - with the potential of a huge difference between people who do it vs people who don’t (+30 tec). To be competitive, everyone will have to do it. Is that the intent of the game? To switch tec partners every 2 days?

As for the fix of the cash bug being hard – unlike population, no values are calculated off of cash values – so the fix should be quite easy.

As well, I think small & big – if something should be fixed, it should be fixed.
Battlecruiser said on: 2008-05-09 10:59 pm
3871 Days, 7 Hrs, 40 Min, 17 Sec ago
As Loki said, 1 and 4 are needed to keep the VIPs happy, although lowering the price to 80% is kind of interesting. It's a question of how much advantage VIPs should have.

2 - Once again as Ray said, it's not a massive issue. This techie swapping is very hard to perform (AK can vouch for that :P), so it's open only to those who are willing to devote time and effort to the game. It's a question of how much they should be rewarded for it.
(Btw I did the math and it's only equivalent to having about 4 techies, not 4.5 - that's if it's done perfectly)

3 - Basicaly read what I said above about 1,2,4.

Of course I expect the community to want the advantages taken from those who have them (even though they pay for it with their money/time/effort). I see no real point of this thread.
Elmy said on: 2008-05-10 04:18 am
3871 Days, 2 Hrs, 21 Min, 46 Sec ago
Maybe it was to bring attention to certain aspects of the game to the people who manage it, so that they can determine whether or not this was intended?
_ElessaR_ said on: 2008-05-10 05:02 am
3871 Days, 1 Hr, 37 Min, 54 Sec ago
Soon we will have no users playing this game.

Look at the rankings, bc is 16 tech away. Sadly in nations, users are only there to make up the numbers.

[Added at 05/10/2008 05:03:21 by _ElessaR_]
Frankly speaking, I think this game does not give a level playing ground for users. Vips simply own users in all aspects.
Loki said on: 2008-05-10 05:28 am
3871 Days, 1 Hr, 11 Min, 13 Sec ago
Ele, top user still gets the same prize as the winner.

I hate to say this but why shouldnt the people that pay for the site get the advantage?

[Added at 05/10/2008 05:33:29 by Loki]
And Elmo,

Are you telling me you dont think this has all been bought up many times before. This is about the 5th or 6th time I have seen this kind of post since I came back to Nations.

Just my 2 cents but personally I dont think the "complaint" threads that have so often came out of the "purist" players are getting anyone anywhere except for putting a bitter tang into the site. As I said this is just my feeling. People complain others defend and it just ends up making everyone upset.
Tooks said on: 2008-05-10 05:47 am
3871 Days, 52 Minutes, 49 Seconds ago
I think VIP's are a bit overpowered at the time being. I mean you HAVE to have VIP to win, theres no question to it unless you have like 3 VIPs fully supporting you all round. I think something should be done to eliminate the farming aspect of the game aswell like put a limit on it like researches. Too much land for your nation right now, try researching something to make your nation strong enough. I agree with Pic on alot of his suggestions. The techie exploit is a big one that can seriously unbalance the game.

[Added at 05/10/2008 05:51:23 by Tooks]
And yeah, top users get the same prize but we can't WIN. I agree, VIPs should get some sort of advantage but they don't need to be handed a win. VIPs are virtually invincible against a user.

They make tons more cash from the market

They can store up military like crazy, making it easy for them to rebuild if attacked.

They can easily get support from someone by selling $20 oil.

They can low land with the vast amount of cash they recieve from the market and support, and base tech like crazy. This gives a massive advantage to the VIP's alone, as it puts about 50 tech in front of the users.
Battlecruiser said on: 2008-05-10 07:11 am
3870 Days, 23 Hrs, 28 Min, 19 Sec ago
I've suggested before that there should be one top list for everyone and another one for users-only :-/
Archer said on: 2008-05-10 07:21 am
3870 Days, 23 Hrs, 18 Min, 8 Sec ago
Why don't we just make a whole new version of Nations.
If we apply all these changes, i doubt i would be able to recognize nations anymore.
Like Nations 2. lol.
Moonshine said on: 2008-05-10 07:41 am
3870 Days, 22 Hrs, 58 Min, 5 Sec ago
I agree with pic
Nataku said on: 2008-05-10 09:12 am
3870 Days, 21 Hrs, 27 Min, 40 Sec ago
i agree with pic too.

[Added at 05/10/2008 10:28:39 by Nataku]
BC is teh exploiter!
Sal said on: 2008-05-10 11:06 am
3870 Days, 19 Hrs, 33 Min, 52 Sec ago
Always the same babbling about overpowered VIPs.

If you want to win as a user, play smart and organize attacks on vips that could win. Simple as that...
Nataku said on: 2008-05-10 11:28 am
3870 Days, 19 Hrs, 11 Min, 12 Sec ago
Sal is right... thing is, most users don;t have the parts to do something like this.

[Added at 05/10/2008 11:35:13 by Nataku]
if and when these flaws r fixed, this may call for an erasure of records... :D

hehehe xD!
Pic said on: 2008-05-10 11:55 am
3870 Days, 18 Hrs, 44 Min, 37 Sec ago
This is not just about VIP’s: the ‘Tec alliance exploit’ can be done by anyone – and it gives a HUGE advantage for anyone who does it.
Sal said on: 2008-05-10 12:50 pm
3870 Days, 17 Hrs, 49 Min, 43 Sec ago
I wasnt commenting your post tho, pic. It was about everyone else that started an argument about overpowered VIPs.

Like last month, and the month before and so on..

[Added at 05/10/2008 12:50:39 by Sal]
Here's a rhyme for the whiney ppl :

If you're not happy, get VIP.
Pappose said on: 2008-05-10 01:01 pm
3870 Days, 17 Hrs, 38 Min, 16 Sec ago
Quit complaining already. If you feel you are at a disadvantage playing as a user then upgrade to vip. The whole idea of being a vip in the first place is to have advantages in the game. All these alterations aren't necessary.
Stormbringer said on: 2008-05-10 01:46 pm
3870 Days, 16 Hrs, 53 Min, 3 Sec ago
I agree with Pic's comments for the most part. As a VIP I do use #1 and #4. As for #2 and #3 I have never considered using or bothering with. I think that #1 and #4 are needed in order for the site to have VIP's. If they were taken away or changed then I think is easy to see that there would be very few VIP's left to help support the site.
#2 and #3 could be more easily addressed as Pic indicated.
Battlecruiser said on: 2008-05-10 03:16 pm
3870 Days, 15 Hrs, 23 Min, 7 Sec ago
Aww, poor Nat, don't cry :( You might break 200 tech one day too.
Nataku said on: 2008-05-10 03:22 pm
3870 Days, 15 Hrs, 17 Min, 53 Sec ago
:( :P
Nataku said on: 2008-05-10 03:24 pm
3870 Days, 15 Hrs, 15 Min, 50 Sec ago
I actually think instead of allowing the market to be used for starage... i tihnk that the units on market should be able to get espionage attacks pitted against them.

this way they'd be like actual storage depots that the arms bazzars throughout the world use.

which get raided as well.
Battlecruiser said on: 2008-05-10 03:27 pm
3870 Days, 15 Hrs, 12 Min, 12 Sec ago
Meh, you can only destroy 2 types of units through spying anyways...

About the market - I like what pic suggested (reducing the max price to 80%)
BmXbrigade said on: 2008-05-10 03:48 pm
3870 Days, 14 Hrs, 50 Min, 58 Sec ago
i agree with stormy 100% i know i would cancel my vip if i couldnt store military
Viper10488 said on: 2008-05-10 04:18 pm
3870 Days, 14 Hrs, 21 Min, 18 Sec ago
look at it this way guys, top non VIP can win VIP
so u gotta be a good user to get a chance as VIP, then if ur a good VIP/user you win the round xD
Entity-Neo said on: 2008-05-10 06:27 pm
3870 Days, 12 Hrs, 12 Min, 28 Sec ago
Who cares, vips need an advantage in some way.

Honestly, anyone who has that much dedication to a text game and has the time on their hands to do so, good on them. Dont see it as a issue. Why waste the effort?

Loki said on: 2008-05-10 07:16 pm
3870 Days, 11 Hrs, 23 Min, 51 Sec ago
wow dave.

that was the most consise way to sum up my thoughts possible. Well done.

HD for your efforts :)
MethodMan said on: 2008-05-11 01:34 am
3870 Days, 5 Hrs, 5 Min, 13 Sec ago
I'd say listen to Pic. Why? Because he knows a great deal about the game. Why he wasn't mdae a mod I can't explain (I haven't been around for a long time, maybe I missed something).

Also, I don't mean to be a negative Nancy or anything, but to be honest, I think you should do everything in your power to make the game better for the people who play, as a thanks for sticking by it so long. It's clear that very few newer players are coming in and the game (perhaps the site) is failing.
TinaMiaz said on: 2008-05-11 03:13 am
3870 Days, 3 Hrs, 26 Min, 52 Sec ago
Hmm, Wow...Never thought I'd read a post like that posted by method.
_ElessaR_ said on: 2008-05-11 05:59 am
3870 Days, 40 Minutes, 1 Second ago
In that case,

I request that all users who whine about overpowered vips (including me), lets all together MASS BC AND Ak at rise time. That way they can't win and a user will have a chance of winning.

Pappose said on: 2008-05-11 06:15 am
3870 Days, 24 Minutes, 27 Seconds ago
Like that would help _ElessaR_. Archer and Pic are next in line and guess what, they are vips. The way I'm heading, I won't be in top 5 for long. Wolfblack the vip is next. So what user has a REAL SHOT this round? Your effort won't change the reality that a vip will win this round.
MethodMan said on: 2008-05-11 12:09 pm
3869 Days, 18 Hrs, 30 Min, 38 Sec ago
Sorry Tina, I meant to say: Show us your boobs!

Space-Monkey said on: 2008-05-11 09:19 pm
3869 Days, 9 Hrs, 20 Min, 45 Sec ago
Its simple, if you want to win, go pay sal to go to everyone's house that is ahead of you, and crush their computer with his man boobs.
PinWizard said on: 2008-05-11 10:00 pm
3869 Days, 8 Hrs, 39 Min, 27 Sec ago
hey sal!! i need to pay u go smash aks computer and pics and jings
Badmrbill said on: 2008-05-13 04:18 pm
3867 Days, 14 Hrs, 21 Min, 21 Sec ago
k i add my two cents to this

1 and 4 basically same thing way to solve this is like some other games did make it so unsold units on market still have to be cared for ie they still use food and oil till sold. may cost less to have them on market but it cost some this way makes them have to do some ag and ref research

2 is easy go back to the 3 days before we can drop a techy used to be that way for a few rounds because people have done something like this before.

3 no comment
GuildaMage said on: 2008-05-13 05:04 pm
3867 Days, 13 Hrs, 35 Min, 39 Sec ago

1. I actually like this small benefit, as in all honesty if a user players correctly, the only advantage vips get over them is the vip spends less money.

2. Once the round starts you have 72 hours to change tech partners. New players will be given 2 weeks to find techies. Players who have under 3 techies may still get techies, but after the 72 hour period, they will be instantly locked in if they accept. If a player's techie goes inactive for 5 days, they will be able to cancel.

3. Just make it so that it counts the -funds you will use in the pricing.

4. Troop Degredation period. Over X time, Y troops die. Also you can make it so that the max price you put troops up is X% less then the price of buying them.

Things that you didnt bring up:

5.Food and oil put on the market in truck loads.

^Same solution as #4

6. The vip advantage to gain base tech.

^ Cut prices for food and oil in half

7. Multiple disbanders massing each other to give someone an uber farm.

^ Make it so that you can only disband 2 days prior to the rounds end. This will at least cut out the Farm A, hits Farm B, then Guy C rises portion. Also it will add some risk to disbanding, as youd have 2 days of no troops.

Thats all i can think of atm.
AK47 said on: 2008-05-13 06:07 pm
3867 Days, 12 Hrs, 32 Min, 51 Sec ago

ok im gonna go a little off topic but i think people will agree.

Nations is NOT a war game. it hasnt been for a long time and although i wasnt around from the start of the game, i doubt it ever was. with that said, why not just change what the game is suppose to stand for?! meaning, just label it as a teching game rather then a war game. face it...most people that play the game play for tech...not to war. occasionally someone will want to take a break from teching and will seek to start a war but overall its about making top 50...for better players, top 10...for elite players, winning rounds.

just to prove my point...if you were given the opportunity to rank and win rounds as well as bc, or pic, or sal, or myself...would you not look to take advantage? i really doubt there are people that would say no.

so my overall point is that Nations should just be acknowledged as a teching/strategy game rather then something that its not...a war game!
_ElessaR_ said on: 2008-05-13 11:30 pm
3867 Days, 7 Hrs, 9 Min, 39 Sec ago
I vote for the banning of people who have a ready-made uber farm for rise time!
Archer said on: 2008-05-13 11:31 pm
3867 Days, 7 Hrs, 8 Min, 39 Sec ago
I vote for you to go...
Nataku said on: 2008-05-14 02:40 am
3867 Days, 3 Hrs, 59 Min, 24 Sec ago
I vote for Jing to STFU and go too his corner too play some Fad cards and eat some rice.
GuildaMage said on: 2008-05-14 04:07 am
3867 Days, 2 Hrs, 32 Min, 13 Sec ago
AK- i dont do any of the above and i still do well, granted, i dont hit 0930990309409904 tech but hey.

[Added at 05/14/2008 04:08:31 by GuildaMage]
As for the market issues, and the vip advantages, ive been asking for changes to it for several rounds now.

But it hasnt happenned yet, i doubt it will happen ever, arguing about it just pisses people off and gives me a headache, so i wont. =)
Ayanami said on: 2008-05-14 08:03 am
3866 Days, 22 Hrs, 36 Min, 29 Sec ago
lol all your suggestions require coding IE effort :P

Not likely to make a difference ;)
GuildaMage said on: 2008-05-14 08:22 am
3866 Days, 22 Hrs, 17 Min, 29 Sec ago
Well yeah, most computer program fixes require coding. Unfortunately we cant just kick the server and hope it changes how the game works.
Space-Monkey said on: 2008-05-14 08:59 am
3866 Days, 21 Hrs, 40 Min, 55 Sec ago
GuildaMage (Vip) said on: 05/14/08 8:22 am
(35 Minutes, 54 Seconds ago)
Well yeah, most computer program fixes require coding. Unfortunately we cant just kick the server and hope it changes how the game works.

yes we can!!!
GuildaMage said on: 2008-05-14 09:06 am
3866 Days, 21 Hrs, 33 Min, 48 Sec ago
You can physically kick it sure, but realistically it wont change how the game works...except for maybe breaking the server ;)
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-14 06:01 pm
3866 Days, 12 Hrs, 38 Min, 30 Sec ago
I agree with Pic, but I do think Vips should have an advantage. My main concern is with the techie swapping and the cash bug. The techie swapping is definitely something that shouldn't be used. It is a pretty cheap move. Well, mainly, I don't want to put forth the effort to do it, but regardless, it was not meant to be.

I think most here forgot why Pic brought these issues up - To address how the game was meant to be. All these issues, I believe(At least #2 and #3) were not meant to be, and that would be why we call them exploits.

You can use them all you want, but in the end, they're still exploits, thus, using them is pretty cheap. I say, stick to how the game was supposed to be played, respect the game.

Of course, BC doesn't have any problem with using them, it helps him get a high tech score... Just like Battleship, he uses exploits to make him look good. IE: playing himself to get a win.

It is sad when people look for exploits to benefit off of, instead of trying to help eliminate them.

You can call us whiners, complainers, whatever, heck, you can even call us people who address valid issues(Regardless of the priority rank), and if it's been done before, well, it'll be done again.

Ideas to better Nations are always welcome to me. Thanks Pic.

GuildaMage said on: 2008-05-14 06:33 pm
3866 Days, 12 Hrs, 6 Min, 42 Sec ago
I just want to address one comment:

Of course I expect the community to want the advantages taken from those who have them (even though they pay for it with their money/time/effort). I see no real point of this thread.

I pay for my vip. Even still i think what i get for my money is too much. An advantage is nice to have, what we get is a travesty. With the current set up its possible for a vip to have 40 points of base over a user.

Vips deserve to get something for supporting, but it shouldnt be a nearly garunteed win every round.
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-14 06:39 pm
3866 Days, 12 Hrs, 36 Sec ago
Agreed. There should still be somewhat of a chance for the users. And hey, I'm a Vip too, what do you know!
Pic said on: 2008-05-14 07:32 pm
3866 Days, 11 Hrs, 7 Min, 5 Sec ago
Possibly I should make a post that’s just about tec swapping – that’s the one I really want to go after. (I wouldn’t mind the other 3, but tec swapping will be the one that wrecks the game).
WeaponX (Mod) said on: 2008-05-14 08:07 pm
3866 Days, 10 Hrs, 32 Min, 9 Sec ago
Didn't read the whole thread, but "tech swapping" actually is not allowed.
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-14 08:26 pm
3866 Days, 10 Hrs, 13 Min, 55 Sec ago
I'd let BC know that then.

[Added at 05/14/2008 20:27:15 by SilverSurfer]
And thanks Weap! Good to get that cleared, and out of the way, now I guess you guys would need to start doing some techie surveilance!
GuildaMage said on: 2008-05-14 09:02 pm
3866 Days, 9 Hrs, 37 Min, 53 Sec ago
Apparently its tech swapping either is legal, or all the other mods forgot about it being illegal.
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-14 09:48 pm
3866 Days, 8 Hrs, 51 Min, 36 Sec ago
Yeah, especially the ones that play. Some sort of important Nations business must have pushed it out of their minds.
Battlecruiser said on: 2008-05-14 11:44 pm
3866 Days, 6 Hrs, 54 Min, 56 Sec ago
Weap, I've asked Korgy about it when I started doing it (around when I came back) and it is allowed. Unfortunately I wasn't able to do it with more than 1 techie until last round.

SS, another lie about me (like the one about BS and most of the other stuff you say), and you get a warning. I played myself once to see if it is even possible and reported it as a bug.

But yeah, all the whiners can keep on calling the game rules "exploits". Since they are no more than jealous noobs who suck too much to be able to compete, I as a player don't care.

As long as it's legal, it's legal.
Cap4 said on: 2008-05-15 12:03 am
3866 Days, 6 Hrs, 36 Min, 39 Sec ago
Wow.... you know you've pushed it too far when BC's mad.... lay off guys don't forget it's just a game ;)
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-15 04:27 am
3866 Days, 2 Hrs, 12 Min, 5 Sec ago
1. Tell me what I lied about.

2. So Korgy okayed it... It obviously isn't very official when one mod thinks "Yes", and the other "No".

3. Going on calling us noobs is against your own curriculum. This is the second time you've resorted to insults over the game. Was it FS that said that they were supposed to be cracking down on mods and others from the very same thing?

Again, where is the lies BC? You are what you are, that's why you get massed every rise.

How long ago was it when Blake or whoever changed the tech updating issues so that it's automatic. I remember clearly hearing something about it being changed to be what it was supposed to be like, and it is only in the same field that we address these issues. If you think that's wrong, then good for you, you got something going BC, nice high tech scores every round, people look at you like some Nations tech god, yeah I'm jealous, I'd like to be able to be just like you BC, I have Yamato Gun posters in my bedroom, and I twitter my eye lashes while chewing bubble gum, dreaming that I'm riding you like the duke, controlling your cockpit, shooting laser beams to and fro.... AHHHH, what a dream, time to wake up from it BC.
Loki said on: 2008-05-15 05:01 am
3866 Days, 1 Hr, 38 Min, 21 Sec ago
Just so that everyone is on the same page. What is being refered to tech swapping is NOT illegal according to the Game Master.

Infering that Mods are either cheating or have convieniently forgotten rules is not something I personally like SS. Please refrain from it, if you have a problem with one of us go through the correct channels.

Please note that the mods in game are just users. We are nothing more.

The correct channel is to NNMS Firestarter. If you have an issue with the way the mods act then get hold of firestarter. But get your facts strait and do not bring it up here.

Thank you.
Battlecruiser said on: 2008-05-15 05:37 am
3866 Days, 1 Hr, 2 Min, 38 Sec ago
I'm not insulting anyone. Just saying that it's natural for someone who can't keep up to want the rules changed so that noone can get ahead of them with effort. But then why not just give everyone the same tech score no matter what they do?

I, as a player, do not care what these people say.

That is all. Reread my last post and Loki's for the rest of your answers.
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-15 04:11 pm
3865 Days, 14 Hrs, 28 Min, 42 Sec ago
Get it through your head - It has nothing to do with being jealous. It has to do with it being not right. Get it?
GuildaMage said on: 2008-05-16 03:59 am
3865 Days, 2 Hrs, 40 Min, 10 Sec ago
2. Once the round starts you have 72 hours to change tech partners. New players will be given 2 weeks to find techies. Players who have under 3 techies may still get techies, but after the 72 hour period, they will be instantly locked in if they accept. If a player's techie goes inactive for 5 days, they will be able to cancel.

Ill agree that it would suck to be locked into a techie if something unexpected happen, i think i was techied to xsquad when he had his car accident.

But in all honesty, this is nations, if you make alliances with other nations you shouldnt be able to drop them at the drop of a time. alliances between real nations last decades, ours last days..

So...put it in place, and lets all hug and sing kumbaya.
Entity-Neo said on: 2008-05-16 04:15 am
3865 Days, 2 Hrs, 24 Min, 10 Sec ago
So what if 'real alliances' last decades. Pretty sure real nations dont get reset every 30 days either.

WeaponX (Mod) said on: 2008-05-16 09:53 am
3864 Days, 20 Hrs, 46 Min, 51 Sec ago
It was made illegal about the time I first became a moderator.

[Added at 05/16/2008 09:54:56 by WeaponX]
And I haven't heard any change on it either.
Sal said on: 2008-05-16 10:08 am
3864 Days, 20 Hrs, 31 Min, 48 Sec ago
Ok, two things.

1. I'll repeat myself, but people seem not to get the point. If you're a user, outsmart the leading VIPs and have them attacked. How complicated is that?

2. Stored military can be bought at the same price as you buy them in-game. It's not necesserly safe to set your troops there. It's not a bug. If I put 5 000 000 units of 20$ oil and no one buys it, is it abusing a bug? No its not, you're just too retarded to follow the market prices.

Oh and, I highly recommand anyone who claims users "cant" win to re-read #1 over and over until you get the point.

Why have users not won in a while? Did you even care to look at how many times round winners were attacked? ...Wake up.
Nataku said on: 2008-05-16 10:11 am
3864 Days, 20 Hrs, 28 Min, 16 Sec ago
i agree with sal... thing is too many users try sucking up too VIP's and support them way too often...

so that one day they may go "FTW"

*says "FTW" with a gleam in his eye.
TheWhiteDemon said on: 2008-05-16 07:27 pm
3864 Days, 11 Hrs, 12 Min, 33 Sec ago
Just mass everyone..
Tooks said on: 2008-05-16 07:36 pm
3864 Days, 11 Hrs, 3 Min, 32 Sec ago
Techie swapping should be illegal, as it is abusive. Its equivalent to having 4 (Almost 5) techies and defeats the purpose of having the 3 techie limit. The only reason its not illegal right now is because a few of the mods are doing it.
Archer said on: 2008-05-16 07:37 pm
3864 Days, 11 Hrs, 2 Min, 26 Sec ago
It's not illegal because everyone can do it provided they have friends who are willing to help them.
Tooks said on: 2008-05-16 07:41 pm
3864 Days, 10 Hrs, 57 Min, 57 Sec ago
It still defeats the purpose of the 3 techie limit, just because everyone can do it does't make it right.
Battlecruiser said on: 2008-05-16 08:39 pm
3864 Days, 10 Hrs, 4 Sec ago
Get this in your head please. The only reason anything is legal or illegal is because the GameMaster said so.
Tooks said on: 2008-05-16 08:53 pm
3864 Days, 9 Hrs, 46 Min, 11 Sec ago
And if mods are on the pro side of the issue, the outcome is more towards their favor...
Pic said on: 2008-05-16 08:54 pm
3864 Days, 9 Hrs, 45 Min, 8 Sec ago
Well – it used to be if someone in the community was playing in a less then ethical method (and most of us agree about tec swapping) – the rest of the community would mass him.

So, until we can get it banned, I would suggest if you see people ‘tec swapping’ to mass them now and then.
DrUnKeNmOnKeY said on: 2008-05-16 08:58 pm
3864 Days, 9 Hrs, 41 Min, 50 Sec ago
Arguing about this doesn't solve anything. Both sides have relevant points. The goal should be to have fun because, well this is a game the last time I checked. So keeping that in mind, BRING BACK OLD NATIONS.
Battlecruiser said on: 2008-05-16 09:18 pm
3864 Days, 9 Hrs, 21 Min, 52 Sec ago
And even then you won't keep up, pic ;)

Your days of winning rounds with 230 tech are over! Just face it!
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-16 09:19 pm
3864 Days, 9 Hrs, 20 Min, 22 Sec ago
BC - I already had that in my head, however, you have thus far failed to provide me with any solid proof that the "Gamemaster" said anything at all, and both you and Tony seem to be saying two different things, so it obviously isn't very official whether it's allowed, or not. I DO KNOW that it is the gamemasters decision, that, I am aware of. But thanks for your failed attempt to try and bring me up to date on something...
Battlecruiser said on: 2008-05-16 09:22 pm
3864 Days, 9 Hrs, 17 Min, 7 Sec ago
What in the world made you think I might want to prove something to you?
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-16 09:31 pm
3864 Days, 9 Hrs, 8 Min, 25 Sec ago
What in the world made you think that I care to even hear what you have to say or prove?
Battlecruiser said on: 2008-05-16 09:39 pm
3864 Days, 9 Hrs, 20 Sec ago
That fact that you just replied.
GuildaMage said on: 2008-05-16 09:41 pm
3864 Days, 8 Hrs, 58 Min, 13 Sec ago
Unless im horribly mistaken, Korgrath is the Mod in charge of Nations.

Myself and BC both asked him in chat today about Tech swapping. His comment was, that while he doesnt like it and might have to consider a solution, it is "legal" and within the bounds of our current rules.

Tooks said on: 2008-05-16 09:47 pm
3864 Days, 8 Hrs, 52 Min, 3 Sec ago
Its legal within the bounds of our current rules only because a rule was never made against this before because it never really became an issue until lately. I think it takes away from the aspect of having "Alliances". If you can't win by playing the same way everyone else does, you try to bend and exploit other ways. Thats how it works, correct?.
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-16 10:07 pm
3864 Days, 8 Hrs, 31 Min, 56 Sec ago
Well BC, may your own answer be the one you're looking for.
Nataku said on: 2008-05-17 07:34 am
3863 Days, 23 Hrs, 5 Min, 19 Sec ago
well now... I do agree that the people that pay for VIP and support NN do deserve in game advantages for all the games here.

and perks and what not which they have...

but complaining about them, and whining like Sal says, rather than actually getting a bunch of freinds together to help one another get higher ranks as users.

that's pathetic...

cause if you go too any other game site... Users that support and pay... get WAY more perks than they do here.

i say the playing feild is still pretty darn even.

so quit whining about Tech swapping.... pre set farms, and other stuff... and as users do something about it together.

ya'll could make a freindly game out of it. called users VS VIPs (with no hard feelings of course)... kind of like king of the hill as a kid...

That's my take on this all.
Tooks said on: 2008-05-17 08:49 am
3863 Days, 21 Hrs, 50 Min, 26 Sec ago
Nataku, stfu
GuildaMage said on: 2008-05-17 09:36 am
3863 Days, 21 Hrs, 3 Min, 39 Sec ago
I agree with tooks, nata, stfu. =P

Im a vip. I think our advantage is a bit much, cut market prices in half, wed still have an advantage, it just wouldnt be as huge.
Nataku said on: 2008-05-17 09:39 am
3863 Days, 21 Hrs, 37 Sec ago

noobism both of you... O.O

sdgjkasdfgh im i love you in spazzing right now you noobism ers

i owe my allegience to you

cmon man seriously... VIP's that support ... should eff it

[Added at 05/17/2008 09:47:57 by Nataku]
Awe ... what i meant was i'm not even gunna bother K

Sal said on: 2008-05-17 11:07 am
3863 Days, 19 Hrs, 32 Min, 37 Sec ago
I tend to go with Nat on this one.

VIPs can win without ALOT of effort, but users can still win if they play their cards right.

If you really want to win, you "gotta do what ya gotta do".
Deano-Wales said on: 2008-05-17 11:51 am
3863 Days, 18 Hrs, 48 Min, 12 Sec ago
It's cheating - Just ban it.
Battlecruiser said on: 2008-05-17 02:39 pm
3863 Days, 16 Hrs, 36 Sec ago
The next person to try to confuse the community into thinking something is cheating when it's legal is getting a warning.
Tooks said on: 2008-05-17 02:51 pm
3863 Days, 15 Hrs, 47 Min, 59 Sec ago
Confuse the community?

BmXbrigade said on: 2008-05-17 03:26 pm
3863 Days, 15 Hrs, 13 Min, 42 Sec ago
hmm, why doesn't an admin chime in on the legalities? I mean weap says its illegal and BC is very adiment that its legal, its all quite confusing.
Nataku said on: 2008-05-17 03:42 pm
3863 Days, 14 Hrs, 57 Min, 8 Sec ago
Nataku (Admin) Said on this moment

what you say... :D
Cap4 said on: 2008-05-17 05:18 pm
3863 Days, 13 Hrs, 21 Min, 49 Sec ago
I agree that it's not "cheating" at least for now, but I don't think it should be abused such as it is beginning to be.
Loki said on: 2008-05-17 05:26 pm
3863 Days, 13 Hrs, 13 Min, 21 Sec ago
Can we take this back along a track that it was originally ment for, if you cant think of flaws that you would like to see changed that have not been mentioned in here already then can you please moe on to other threads.

most of this seems to have moved onto the techie swapping, if all you want to talk about is that then Tooks has kindly started a thread dedicated to that. Lets all chuck in our 2 cents there.

Thanks alot for your co-operation guys :)
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-17 05:54 pm
3863 Days, 12 Hrs, 45 Min, 13 Sec ago
When valid issues are addressed, the people opposing them always resort to labeling it as "Complaining" or "Whining". That is nothing new. But we don't need to be directly insulted and flamed.

Yes, we COULD all gang up on the people who are doing it, but how to tell who's doing it?

As far as "Confusing the community" goes, I don't think their is anything confusing about this, and I don't think their is any intention to "Confuse the community" either. It is quite simple - Yet another exploit has been found, and used, and some people have a problem with it. And yes, I do agree that an official decision has to be made by an actual Admin... I mean, I know that Korgrath is the Nations mod, but I think "Rule making" goes beyond his job title. He is their to moderate Nations, and to up-hold the rules that are already instated, not exactly to make them himself.

The next step, and maybe one that should have been made in the first place, is to get a hold of the Admins themselves. Although, I would assume that Pic may have already done that. Enough kiddy crap, name calling, etc. This has gone on too long. It's nice to see something allowed to be publicly debated, but their is a line, and certain people to impose it, and I've seen nothing such but threats made by the ones who are supposed to do so.
Entity-Neo said on: 2008-05-17 06:22 pm
3863 Days, 12 Hrs, 17 Min, 26 Sec ago
"Yes, we COULD all gang up on the people who are doing it, but how to tell who's doing it?"

I believe there is a news section which tells you when people make alliances.
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-17 06:54 pm
3863 Days, 11 Hrs, 45 Min, 53 Sec ago
Yes, but you would need to keep like 24 hr surveillance on it to be sure who's doing it and who's not.
MethodMan said on: 2008-05-17 07:34 pm
3863 Days, 11 Hrs, 5 Min, 46 Sec ago
You know you're on a great site when the moderators don't know what the hell is going on.
GuildaMage said on: 2008-05-17 07:59 pm
3863 Days, 10 Hrs, 40 Min, 29 Sec ago
Meth- the mods DO know whats going on, there just seems to be a bit of confusing as to the legallity of the actions being discussed.

Although SS tends to be brash, he did make a good point.

An official stance from an admin would most likely end, or at least stymie the debate going on here.
Tooks said on: 2008-05-17 08:09 pm
3863 Days, 10 Hrs, 30 Min, 51 Sec ago
You heard the mod...

Move it on over to my thread guys...
Korgrath (Mod) said on: 2008-05-17 09:52 pm
3863 Days, 8 Hrs, 47 Min, 18 Sec ago
tech swapping is legal
Loki said on: 2008-05-18 01:32 am
3863 Days, 5 Hrs, 7 Min, 33 Sec ago
OK, the game master has put an end to the discussion as to if this is legal or not. IF we can not get this topic back on to its original idea then I will be forced to close it.

Please either new ideas on how to fix things OR new ideas on what needs to be fixed in nations.
Nataku said on: 2008-05-18 01:35 am
3863 Days, 5 Hrs, 4 Min, 21 Sec ago
PWNDED loki straigt PWND YOU