Nations Forum

MULTIES! 53 replies

Desideo said on: 2009-02-18 03:11 pm
3221 Days, 8 Hrs, 3 Min, 42 Sec ago
Smorkin
Arxael

...

No seriously.
THRUSTER said on: 2009-02-18 04:19 pm
3221 Days, 6 Hrs, 55 Min, 17 Sec ago
Hopefully one of the mods will check into this right away.
XSquad said on: 2009-02-18 05:48 pm
3221 Days, 5 Hrs, 26 Min, 48 Sec ago
Everyone Knows this and If they arent banned might be cuz they have been IP check but it should be checked to be sure. Haaaa... If Only I'd have a Mod tag beside my name :P

Gi_joe (Vip) said on: 2009-02-18 06:17 pm
3221 Days, 4 Hrs, 57 Min, 27 Sec ago
i hate it when someone just tosses out two names and accuses them of being a multi. if you are wrong you should be banned for tarnishing their names.

[Added at 02/18/2009 18:17:58 by Gi_joe]
or trying to tarnish their name.
Desideo said on: 2009-02-18 07:37 pm
3221 Days, 3 Hrs, 37 Min, 9 Sec ago
I hate it when people go right ahead and assume something that's not true.

I didn't just toss out two names. I said this LONG ago... Many, many, many rounds ago, when Smorkin, then at the time my new recruit in SR, acidentally posted in the shoutbox as Arxael. I looked up Smorkins IP, it pointed to an area just outside of an area where I live. I then asked Arxael where he lived, and he told me that location. Take note he did not know that I knew he had a multie yet... So after this, I started looking at his login times, and they were quite close. I then confronted him about it, which ended up in him denying it of course. I kicked him. Then he started being more careful with log in times, but about a month ago, I noticed that he got lazy, and his log in times were close again, and he even just started to tech himself. He even joined the same clan he's already in. Before he used to be in at least two different clans at the same time.

I let Korgy know about it, but we all know that inless the mods have 100% proof, or a matching IP, (Which is easily eluded) they can't do anything... Or don't. So I let it go... Until now.

Just thought I'd bring this up.
DK said on: 2009-02-18 09:16 pm
3221 Days, 1 Hr, 57 Min, 59 Sec ago
Still alot of bad atitudesfloating around I see. For those lucky people that know me how have you been :)


(This darkhawk by they way)
Battlecruiser said on: 2009-02-18 10:39 pm
3221 Days, 35 Minutes, 43 Seconds ago
I know them from another online somewhat-like-a-game that I used to play (sorry NN, I cheated on you!). I've never talked to smorkin, but I don't believe they're multies. Ask guilda, he knows them better and can be trusted.

I would delete this thread, but it would only give a reason to start more poo. Too bad all some people can do is make false accusations at random targets and cover them with dirt in the forums.

[Added at 02/18/2009 22:43:43 by Battlecruiser]
Omg, I forgot about the noob.

*calls DN*
DaisukeNiwa said on: 2009-02-18 10:53 pm
3221 Days, 21 Minutes, 39 Seconds ago
How long has Smorkin' been playing? Like.. total? I've known ArXael from KoR for a long time. He always respected the rules in KoR, and was able to be trusted. I am defending ArXael on this one. Also, XSquad... If I'm not mistaken, didn't you recieve help from ArXael via support? And, if you knew they were multis, and you didn't turn them in... I hold you just as guilty as ArXael if the accusations turn out to be true, which I highly doubt are.
Desideo said on: 2009-02-18 10:57 pm
3221 Days, 16 Minutes, 51 Seconds ago
"Too bad all some people can do is make false accusations at random targets and cover them with dirt in the forums."

Saying they are false because you know them from a different site doesn't mean they are. Yeah, I'm accusing someone, but I have valid reason to, as you may see by reading the above. Someone doesn't "Acidentally" post as someone else very easily... Not inless posting as that other person has come a habit for them. I know so, because once I did so years ago as sideo when I was SS. And if you know them froma different site, what does that mean? Are they brothers? Or friends? Does that explain why sometimes their log in times are the same, or why they generally live in the same area, or why they are teched with eachother And how do you know Smorkin if you never talked to him? too much coincedence.

Just questions, no need to get heated. I know what you're implying by some of the words you're using, BC. You're mad at me because I said you cheated rounds ago, and also mad because of round 66.

[Added at 02/18/2009 23:01:31 by Desideo]
heh You probably think that I'd ban Arxael or Smorkin rigth away if I were mod. When actually, I'd do what dondon put in the post that was deleted here, and put more effort into finding out whther or not he really is a multie.
Battlecruiser said on: 2009-02-18 11:01 pm
3221 Days, 12 Minutes, 54 Seconds ago
They might be brothers, I can't remember, but I recall something like that vaguely.

[Added at 02/18/2009 23:04:58 by Battlecruiser]
Like what? Maybe asking people who could know better?

Not sure what you mean by the reference to dondon, I didn't see that post/thread.
DaisukeNiwa said on: 2009-02-18 11:05 pm
3221 Days, 9 Minutes, 48 Seconds ago
I'm a mod, and I take my job very seriously. I do everything in my power to find out as much information as I possibly can before I take action. Don't argue with me. I'm thankful for your concern, and I'll look into it.

[Added at 02/18/2009 23:05:43 by DaisukeNiwa]
Crap. This was suppose to be under my Battlecruiser account. Sometimes I slip up. :\ I'm not a multi. ;\
Battlecruiser said on: 2009-02-18 11:06 pm
3221 Days, 8 Minutes, 15 Seconds ago
Uh....*scractes head*...thanks DN.

Watch me get accused of being your multy and forgetting to change accounts.

[Added at 02/18/2009 23:08:00 by Battlecruiser]
Bah, multies getting out of hand >.<
SaNdYx said on: 2009-02-18 11:58 pm
3220 Days, 23 Hrs, 16 Min, 25 Sec ago
i propose they are friends, onestla and me are friends, we are in the same clan, we actually have a tech alliance and we live in the same area! does that make me a multi NO!

So like i said before, i bet they are friend or something like that!
ILLiCiT said on: 2009-02-19 12:02 am
3220 Days, 23 Hrs, 12 Min, 18 Sec ago
Had this posted but the post got deleted when the account got banned.

Here's a little guide to figuring out if a an IP is "real" or not. Not really organized, just random crap that is extremely important to know imo, for any mod/admin of any site or Internet service.


IP addresses have two types, dynamic and static. DSL is generally associated with dynamic, as it can change by itself periodically. Not very common actually. Dialup is also dynamic in that every time you redial you can get a new IP. Most people have a static IP. Cable always gives static IPs I think, and DSL usually does too. However, it's not really important which kind someone has, because an IP address has two parts, the network part and the host part. An IPv4 address has 4 octets (eg, xx.xx.xx.xx or xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx or any combination). The network part will be the first 1, 2, or 3 octets depending on the class, but for North Americans and Euros, it's usually the first 2. The network part does not change when a static or dynamic IP is changed by the user! Static IPs are really easy to change but very few people know the quick 30 second method, and resort to leaving their modem unplugged for days on end. Either way, the IP will still have the exact same network portion, so all that changes is the host portion. A smart mod will see this and make a connection.

Summary: a user changing their IP, be it a static or dynamic IP, will end up with a very similar IP as before, with the first half not changing.



When comparing two IPs, you should always check where they're geographically located. http://www.ip2location.com/demo.aspx is invaluable. If they're both in the same city, 99% change they're the same user given the small population of NN. Sometimes the city will be wrong, but is located physically near the real city. Some ISPs' IPs resolve to the ISP's headquarters, so this test can be useless. But generally, two IPs within ~100km are probably the same person. This is especially true if one of the cities is big, because an ISP might just lease server space in a big city to supply connectivity to smaller surrounding cities.



An IP that resolves to a data center is a proxy. Honestly if someone says that their IP that resolves to a datacenter is really their own connection, they're lying. Proxies are really easy to use and are the best way to hide your IP because mods don't ever seem to check if the IP is real, only that it doesn't match anyone else's. ip2location will usually tell if an IP is assigned from a residential ISP or belongs to a datacenter. For example, the IP I'm on right now is 74.208.16.149. ip2location says it belongs to 1&1 Internet, who host the server I am running a web proxy on. dnsstuff.com says the IP belongs to perfora.net. A quick Google search reveals perfora.net is the name for 1&1's servers. PHProxy and Glype both work with Netnexus, and both are retardedly easy to install on a suitable host. Or you can use one of the thousands of proxy sites on the Internet. I honestly think that mods need to check the IP of every Nations player who is in the top 50 or allied to someone in the top 50, particularly those weird no name players who never post but always rank.




Basically it's about assembling evidence that two IPs are, beyond reasonable doubt, related. If one of the IPs belongs to a server, you can make a case that the user is making an effort to hide their IP. It's called doing a bit of research and putting effort into it. Honestly I think people like me who have the intellectual and technical ability to establish links between multies should be given access to the access logs. Mods complain about multies, and users do it more, but nobody actually knows how to find them from a technical standpoint, or they don't have the time.




It's not just IPs either. Mods should look for patterns in email addresses. I remember when I got my copy of the iplookup file, and found a bunch of patterns with emails. For example, <differentfirstname><samelastname>@hotmail.com for about 6 different accounts, most of which were allied with each other. It was some gay French name, Leveque I think. What is the chance of 6 people from the same family playing Nations? Oh, and using the same format for email addresses? About the same chance WB didn't invent his children and wife. Honestly it would take at most an hour to go through the 800 names stored in the iplookup file to find some patterns. At the very least chuck it into Excel and sort by IP to find duplicate IPs or very similar ones. Do you want people to stop saying there are multies? Then prove them wrong. I've been saying this for FOUR years and I've never once seen a public post saying multies found... Not saying you don't find multies all the time, but we sure as hell don't know about it.

[Added at 02/19/2009 00:03:29 by ILLiCiT]
ps I use a proxy for security purposes.
Battlecruiser said on: 2009-02-19 01:29 am
3220 Days, 21 Hrs, 45 Min, 9 Sec ago
I actually all of that stuff (Except the proxy part. Thanks for telling how it works) when checking for multies if I have time, I'm sure other mods do too.

If you are not notified about something, it doesn't mean it's not happening.
ShadyKnight (Mod) said on: 2009-02-19 02:52 am
3220 Days, 20 Hrs, 22 Min, 38 Sec ago
When I was a mod, it was normal to check where the IP came from. Certain people got lucky because the Admin team deemed it necessary to have 100% proof, due to the nearly unmentionable population at NetNexus. I banned based on logic, and sometimes caught flack for it.

I would honestly say though, if you didn't decide to be a dick to NN as a whole so often, you would make a good Mod.
Murdock86 said on: 2009-02-19 09:12 am
3220 Days, 14 Hrs, 2 Min, 6 Sec ago
Havn't seen what smorkin or arxael have to say? Would like to hear what they have to say unless they don't look at forums...
Desideo said on: 2009-02-19 10:42 am
3220 Days, 12 Hrs, 32 Min, 15 Sec ago
If "They" were just friends or multies, why didn't he(Arxael) ever try to say so when I accused him before? He was just rude to me when I accused him. Yeah, something else I remember, which is, as soon as I accused Arxael, Smorkin was pissy with me... Weird eh?

Shady - Whom are you referring to? Dondon or myself?

[Added at 02/19/2009 10:43:09 by Desideo]
Oh, and they both typed the same.
GuildaMage said on: 2009-02-19 10:50 am
3220 Days, 12 Hrs, 24 Min, 27 Sec ago
Ive known arxael for a while, doubt hed cheat. All i really gotta say on the matter. =)
DaisukeNiwa said on: 2009-02-19 11:30 am
3220 Days, 11 Hrs, 43 Min, 53 Sec ago
Well... SS... If someone came up to you with a bunch of bull what did I just step in about being a multi, and accusing you of things that you have a "thought" about. You'd be pretty pissed off too. Especially bringing it out in the open. If I was accused for being a multi, I'd be pissed too.
Desideo said on: 2009-02-19 01:01 pm
3220 Days, 10 Hrs, 12 Min, 54 Sec ago
I didn't really bring it out in the "Open" when I first accused him, and when the time of him being pissy occurred. I wasn't rude about it either. And as you may read, his other account got pissy with me, and not exactly just his main account itself. I directed what I said to one account, not both. And no, I wouldn't get pissed off if someone accused me. I've been accused before, and I've replied with a simple explanation before to that accusation. I didn't go spastic and be like: "OMG he called me a multie, ban him!", or: "OMG he called him a multy, I've knownz himz forz onlinez forz likes twoz yearz and that meanz hes da real thing, i meanz, WE'VE LIKE SENT TEXT TO EACHOTHER so you shud b3 b@nned for thinking he is a multy because he posted under his multies name!". And if I did get pissy, I wouldn't be that way with my multy. I wouldn't send you a message through Sideo if I was playing SS at the time either.

[Added at 02/19/2009 13:41:55 by Desideo]
I just find it funny how people can so easily put so much trust in a person they think they know ONLINE. I mean, you're talking to a guy that had half of NN hating me for my adverse opinions, and then agreeing with me when I changed my name, and made friends with you guys... lol
SaNdYx said on: 2009-02-19 04:17 pm
3220 Days, 6 Hrs, 57 Min, 33 Sec ago
true, when ppls thought i was a multi, i just laught at them and show them that i was not!

BTW we love NN DRAMA
XSquad said on: 2009-02-19 06:01 pm
3220 Days, 5 Hrs, 13 Min, 39 Sec ago
LoL Only cuz I said we knew because it wasnt the first time the subject was brought out.. LOL I said to IP check them if the IP doesnt match we CANT DO CRAP.. And really if he helped me I dont remember and tell yourself something the "support" you just mentionned was certainly .. Little . I ask Vip's to support me normally not users. And blame it on me if you want I dont have to be hold responsible for that crap if it turns out that I have to, then I'l leave this site. Simple as that.
ShadyKnight (Mod) said on: 2009-02-19 06:35 pm
3220 Days, 4 Hrs, 39 Min, 5 Sec ago
I was referring to Dondon, actually. I think that if he wasn't so evil to the site, he'd make a good staff member. I'm a strong fan of the "ban first, ask questions later" line of moderating.

Taking advantage of the fact that NN has a very small population is in itself retarded. Eventually somebody like me will come along and say "Oh well, what's one member gone?" Additionally, paying for VIP doesn't make you exempt from the rules. People seem to have this attitude where they think "If I'm paying for NN service, you can't ban me"

I would honestly "detriment" NetNexus by removing a problematic member than allow them to stay to have an extra 5 hits per day. Also, anybody found trolling would be put right onto the Ban on Sight list. I am tired with people slipping in swear words into posts, and flooding chat, and a bunch of other crap. Things are going to be changing around here whether I'm staff or not. FireStarter has come back with a vengeance, and is even stricter than I am.

Start following the rules.
Failing that, kindly "gtfo" as you are so fond of saying.

Everybody should know who this post is directed at without me having to say names. This is my opinion that I've kept to myself so far. Start behaving like adults, or face the consequences.

In addition, what kind of small thrill can you possibly recieve by trolling a site as small as NN?

</rant>

[Added at 02/19/2009 18:36:29 by ShadyKnight]
*rather than
ILLiCiT said on: 2009-02-19 07:38 pm
3220 Days, 3 Hrs, 36 Min, 32 Sec ago
Unfortunately for you Shady, the admins obviously don't like banning active members.

[Added at 02/19/2009 19:38:35 by ILLiCiT]
*receive

Moonshine said on: 2009-02-19 10:11 pm
3220 Days, 1 Hr, 3 Min, 10 Sec ago
arxael nor smorkin have yet to comment on this. I personally havnt seen how they are multies, of course i rarely pay attention.
DK said on: 2009-02-20 12:11 am
3219 Days, 23 Hrs, 3 Min, 16 Sec ago
From my experience multies have really big mouths. Since they havnt said anything, it is undenieable proof they are not multys :P
DK said on: 2009-02-20 12:14 am
3219 Days, 23 Hrs, 43 Sec ago
Oh and most have totaly oppisite personalitys, even argueing on the forums.



OMG I must be desideo multy :O
ok ok ban us imeaditly
Desideo said on: 2009-02-20 12:28 am
3219 Days, 22 Hrs, 46 Min, 5 Sec ago
Still, nevertheless, out of all the supposed clues, none have answered how a person could acidentally post as someone else? That is only done out of accidental habit.
DK said on: 2009-02-20 12:42 am
3219 Days, 22 Hrs, 32 Min, 18 Sec ago
Someone answer me that.... oh wait wrong account

sorry



you see more proof
Badmrbill said on: 2009-02-20 10:49 am
3219 Days, 12 Hrs, 24 Min, 54 Sec ago
hmm k to answer how could post with other name tis too easy if they are freinds live near each other. one is visiting the other checks out the others account makes a post not remembing it is friends account.
GuildaMage said on: 2009-02-20 11:27 am
3219 Days, 11 Hrs, 47 Min, 17 Sec ago
If AC and sM use the same chat (shoutmix?) then the cookies would save whomever the last person to use a shout was. If arxael and smorkin were friends and smorkin got on arxael's computer it is very feasible that it saved arxaels name for shoutmix cookies.

As a person who has used a multi before (anguish) i ran into this issue and had to constantly remember to check what name was in the shoutbox. ;]

Thus: They could simply be friends who shared computers at some point.
Gemz said on: 2009-02-20 11:45 am
3219 Days, 11 Hrs, 29 Min, 19 Sec ago
I never had that probelm with jess...

(shoutbox thing)
Desideo said on: 2009-02-20 01:39 pm
3219 Days, 9 Hrs, 35 Min, 18 Sec ago
Badmrbill - Read closely. Shoutbox, not forums.

I never had the cookie problem before, either.
ArXael said on: 2009-02-20 08:32 pm
3219 Days, 2 Hrs, 42 Min, 28 Sec ago
I'm flattered a topic on us can raise this many replies. Thanks for the vouchers and support guys.
But I was contacted by Mod via private message about the issues and was cleared more than A YEAR AGO.
I'm arXael and he's smorkin. We played KoR, and a few guys here can vouch for us. If we were multis, it's funny how TWO sites there couldn't catch a multi account. I played KoR for over 6 years? if not longer, and NN (TL) for 5? I have an impressive TL account and my account number for NN is like 3000s.
I don't know what else I can say, but I'll finish reading the rest of the thread later tonight, really interesting..
Battlecruiser said on: 2009-02-20 09:41 pm
3219 Days, 1 Hr, 33 Min, 27 Sec ago
The cookie problem exists. I had to keep changing my name when I posted stuff on an enemy shout to cause internal instability (Probably was UA, I'm not 100% sure.)
ILLiCiT said on: 2009-02-20 11:26 pm
3218 Days, 23 Hrs, 47 Min, 59 Sec ago
All you have to do is make your browser clear cookies on exit, or just not accept them from shoutbox sites (which don't require cookies). If a site doesn't require you to login, or doesn't store any data between sessions (like scores for Flash games or w.e), then you don't really need to store cookies from it, at least not between sessions.
Desideo said on: 2009-02-21 12:17 pm
3218 Days, 10 Hrs, 57 Min, 35 Sec ago
"I'm arXael and he's smorkin. We played KoR, and a few guys here can vouch for us. If we were multis, it's funny how TWO sites there couldn't catch a multi account."

Okay, so he's just Smorkin? Not your friend, not your brother? Just Smorkin from KoR, but no one can say anything else about him? FYI: I played KoR too, and guess what? I had multi's there as well... And yeah, when was the last time anyone was active there trying to catch multi's...

"I played KoR for over 6 years? if not longer, and NN (TL) for 5? I have an impressive TL account and my account number for NN is like 3000s."

I'm sure you didn't literally play there that long, but yeah, I have an account in the 2000's... Oh yeah, and in the 10000's as well. And the 20000's too. Don't forget the 30000's also.
Moonshine said on: 2009-02-21 01:08 pm
3218 Days, 10 Hrs, 6 Min, 37 Sec ago
Guilda......how do you know we use shoutmix? Also what do we have to do with it. lol. Joo Jabroni.
Gi_joe (Vip) said on: 2009-02-22 09:46 am
3217 Days, 13 Hrs, 28 Min, 11 Sec ago
can't a mod close this? enough is enough already. leave my guys alone. this is a game not a witch hunt. let the mods do their job and if they haven't been banned by now let it go. you guys are really going start chasing people out of this game.
ShadowLord69 said on: 2009-02-22 11:32 am
3217 Days, 11 Hrs, 42 Min, 24 Sec ago
yea teh Joe has a "A" point, but i need some closure, this may haunt me until i forget in like 10 seconds...
Desideo said on: 2009-02-22 01:46 pm
3217 Days, 9 Hrs, 28 Min, 30 Sec ago
It's not really a witch-hunt. I've yet to see an adequate defense. Most of what I've heard is: "I've seen him play KoR for years" or "I've played KoR for years" which really doesn't mean anything at all. Other then that he's skilled at clicking a mouse millions of times over. Oh my. I have seen his username in text for years. He must be the real deal... No one has yet to even explain who Smorkin is either, and even Arxael hasn't said that Smorkin is his friend, or his brother, which would pretty much be the only logical defense to th clue I picked up. Way to go for easy way out.

So far, I still see more reason that they are multi's then not. Keep in mind I've kept my eye on them for ages now, longer than they've been "Your guys", since when one of them was mine. Do you think I'd really want to kick a good active player from my own clan? And even if they aren't multies, they ARE somehow connected. But since Arxael has failed with a simple logical explanation, or none at all, I have to conclude that they indeed multi's.
Darkhawk said on: 2009-02-22 02:44 pm
3217 Days, 8 Hrs, 29 Min, 56 Sec ago
Just a qustion, why do you care so much? I've heard of a good samaritan but this seems like a more personal thing. My advice is to let it go, its obvious noones listning to you anyway.
Desideo said on: 2009-02-22 04:12 pm
3217 Days, 7 Hrs, 1 Min, 56 Sec ago
Just an answer: I don't really. I use this as more of an example of how we go about certain things here. And to your second bit, the part where it says no one's listening. Right. Well, that explain why it's the most active thread, most viewed thread, and also the biggest thread in the forums right now.

I like to see some life around here sometimes. I like to see the classic reactions of our dear NN people, and how they treat/trust others based off a name they've seen many times, or off some text sent back and forth. However, regardless of this, I do in fact still have more of just a slight inkling that they are indeed multi's, and because I have found these forums quite boring, and because I have seen the current rankings, and Arxael's current rank of both of his possible/ plausible multiple accounts, I decided to bring it back up.

You see, Darkhawk, maybe if you knew I was SS--someone you would seemingly consider a friend-- you'd be sending me greeting messages as you do on your occasional visits here, and you probably wouldn't have responded the way you just did if you knew so. But you don't know I'm Sideo. You've been away since my revealing... Say hi to your bro for me when you have the chance. :P
SM-sHiNrYo said on: 2009-03-02 06:53 pm
3209 Days, 4 Hrs, 21 Min, 4 Sec ago
The issue you have with a proxy site is they have have complete access to everything you do. This including your passwords, user names, and sites used. So if your going to use a proxy make sure you really trust the site. Free geographically locators are useless since some countries share IPs. Examples of this is some NZ users can use Australia IPs from Australia ISP because they can use PIPE. Also ISP such as Pacific Net provide internet to a range of counrties so it would be diffcult to trace.
DrakenRahl said on: 2009-03-02 08:20 pm
3209 Days, 2 Hrs, 54 Min, 1 Sec ago
I played KoR with them, I don't recall any problems..

[Added at 03/02/2009 20:21:32 by DrakenRahl]
Yes, I realize this thread is somewhat aged.
Desideo said on: 2009-03-03 01:07 pm
3208 Days, 10 Hrs, 7 Min, 6 Sec ago
LOL Okay, how many times do I have to put this... It doesn't matter if you saw their username in another game. It doesn't tell you anything in the matter of disproving my accusation.
ILLiCiT said on: 2009-03-03 02:46 pm
3208 Days, 8 Hrs, 27 Min, 49 Sec ago
Yeah I bet proxy owners are just waiting to hack your dear NN accounts.

If you're really paranoid, do what I did and install a proxy (I prefer PHProxy) on your own webspace. Any webhost that gives you PHP 4/5 will do. Note that I did this because most proxies are slow as hell and infested with ads, while my hosted proxy is nearly as fast as having no proxy. If you don't want anyone using it, block off the directory with .htaccess.
Busty said on: 2009-03-04 06:03 am
3207 Days, 17 Hrs, 10 Min, 49 Sec ago
Match made in heaven.


47. Crowther of BladeFist 152.35
48. Creammealot of creammealot 152.32
Gi_joe (Vip) said on: 2009-03-04 09:27 am
3207 Days, 13 Hrs, 47 Min, 13 Sec ago
YAWN!!!!!
Desideo said on: 2009-03-04 10:14 am
3207 Days, 13 Hrs, 43 Sec ago
Thanks for the bump, Joe. :D