Nations Forum

Proposition 50 replies

IronSinew (Admin) said on: 2008-05-19 03:48 pm
3496 Days, 18 Hrs, 49 Min, 49 Sec ago
It seems to me that the alliance section of Nations is only plausible in one aspect, technological alliances. However, since this system has recently come under fire for it's purpose I've begun to really analyze if alliances are really necessary?

I propose that alliances be removed entirely. *gasp*

"But Iron, we'll get less tech because we won't be receiving all of the research points from our allies anymore!"
-- No, tech values will be adjusted to compensate.

"But Iron, I like alliances, even though 75% of them don't do anything."
-- If more of it was actually useful, I'd consider keeping alliances.

"But Iron, I like being able to abuse a system to artificially inflate my research without me actually using turns!"
-- :(

Maybe I will begin testing some ideas for increased clan importance to help balance the feeling of "social loss" between players. However, I feel that this is a suitable compromise to alleviate the so-called "tech swapping" issue, as well as prompting me to fill in some features that I fill are lost.

Look forward to my post in the future about proposed upgrades to Nations.

~Iron
Stoutn said on: 2008-05-19 03:51 pm
3496 Days, 18 Hrs, 47 Min, 4 Sec ago
I vote: Yes


Sal said on: 2008-05-19 03:51 pm
3496 Days, 18 Hrs, 46 Min, 58 Sec ago
<3 the idea.
ShadowLord69 said on: 2008-05-19 03:52 pm
3496 Days, 18 Hrs, 45 Min, 56 Sec ago
NO, fix and change it dont scrap it.
Hi-Liter said on: 2008-05-19 04:02 pm
3496 Days, 18 Hrs, 35 Min, 45 Sec ago
great idea iron. i vote to eliminate alliances.
TinaMiaz said on: 2008-05-19 04:14 pm
3496 Days, 18 Hrs, 24 Min, 17 Sec ago
Mmmm...Sounds like a plan.
Al_capone said on: 2008-05-19 04:19 pm
3496 Days, 18 Hrs, 19 Min, 28 Sec ago
Just like i said,vote yes to remove

[Added at 05/19/2008 16:30:36 by Al_capone]
clan tech sharing would be the best way to go....if your in clan"a",you get tech from everyone in clan that researches in ....say 8s...giving you what you got researching in 4s at current level of play.

catch option 1
so ppl dont hop 5 clans in one day.....the clan you start round on is the clan you get tech from.....you leave,no more tech for round.


catch option 2
You must figure out what clan you want within first 2 days of round.....join....and have clan tech lock option that they must click.Once you join....your stuck for round.

catch option 3(best one)

You must be in a clan (x) number of days before seeing any tech from clan.....if your in a clan on day one....you get tech right away,but if you switch you have waiting period w/ new clan before seeing results..

[Added at 05/19/2008 16:39:17 by Al_capone]
clan tech would bring back the big clans and would give edge to clans w/ alot of members.....also easing pain of new ppl in clan,and as long as they research in 8s the clan tech goes up.
DannyFo (Mod) said on: 2008-05-19 04:45 pm
3496 Days, 17 Hrs, 53 Min, 14 Sec ago
Beautiful idea Blake!
Sal said on: 2008-05-19 04:51 pm
3496 Days, 17 Hrs, 47 Min, 2 Sec ago
I dont like the clan teching idea al, it can be abused soooo much more and on a much larger scale.



At one point, everyone would get in the same clan. And even if you impose a clan member limit, what aobut ppl who want to start their clan and lack members? That's just a big no from me.
WeaponX (Mod) said on: 2008-05-19 05:02 pm
3496 Days, 17 Hrs, 35 Min, 39 Sec ago
You're doing this so I'll play aren't you...

-.-
SeniorUnloco said on: 2008-05-19 05:13 pm
3496 Days, 17 Hrs, 25 Min, 0 Sec ago
If he is, and you do stay and play.

Just just did something called "User Retention"

and thats what good "Bosses" Do.
Breakyourself said on: 2008-05-19 06:19 pm
3496 Days, 16 Hrs, 18 Min, 47 Sec ago
i dont like it, part of this game is about having partners to help you, with techies it can help people as well as hurt you, i think it helps in the nn community in helping relations with eachother, to tell you the truth i dont really helping newbies out unless their my techies, tell you what ive tried a round by myself without any techies, its just not as fun, and somewhat boring
Stormbringer said on: 2008-05-19 06:23 pm
3496 Days, 16 Hrs, 14 Min, 57 Sec ago
Brilliant idea! I'm with Sal on the clan tech proposal as there would be abuse there as well.
Beowulf24 said on: 2008-05-19 06:29 pm
3496 Days, 16 Hrs, 8 Min, 50 Sec ago
i like the clan alliance idea but i dont really think that the tech alliance is a bad thing why shouldent you get alliances help from allies it make the game seem real in a way just dont make it so easy to get maby we have to buy some tech alliance and lose money or somthing i say dont get ride of it just change it
Sin said on: 2008-05-19 06:30 pm
3496 Days, 16 Hrs, 7 Min, 56 Sec ago
I love the idea. As long as the tech levels are adjusted then this would be a great idea. I kinda do like having tech alliences but this might make for a better more challenging game. With all the abuse and the other alliences not really helpful and only tech allies are helpful hell we don't need them. Just modifiy the tech levels like he said and it would work out. I believe this is a very smart idea.

I say "Yes" do to the fact it would get more challenging and then maybe the same people WON'T WIN OVER AND OVER AGAIN. That's just my point of veiw. XD
Loki said on: 2008-05-19 06:37 pm
3496 Days, 16 Hrs, 50 Sec ago
I would just like to add a couple things. Maybe instead of our current alliance system we could have individual NAP (Non-Attack Pact) system where we can make "alliances" with players from other clans on an individual basis.

Secondly I would just like to add that I highly doubt this will change the round winners. I say this because all it is doing is taking one small part of winning away. The fact will still stand that the players that play more extreme IE the players that push the limits with their tech per turn usage will have the exact same advantage as they currently have.

Saying the above. I think it is a brilliant idea as you will have good players that will not be bought down by average techies. It also means that you will not have to be ultra selective with who you choose your alliances with.

Honestly I agree with Sal, this is a step in the right direction.
Breakyourself said on: 2008-05-19 06:51 pm
3496 Days, 15 Hrs, 46 Min, 58 Sec ago
clan tech? so does that mean pic, ak, bc sal and who ever can be in the same clan and have a huge advanage? or all the vip's get into the same clan and can focus on tech have an advantage over?
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-19 07:02 pm
3496 Days, 15 Hrs, 36 Min, 27 Sec ago
It would definitely make the game a little less annoying... And having three good tech allies that are Vip and research the right things does help those that have em... Like all the top players... Not having any alliances would make it easier on the players that can't find consistent good tech allies...
Tooks said on: 2008-05-19 07:31 pm
3496 Days, 15 Hrs, 6 Min, 45 Sec ago
Sounds good to me, Go for it Blake!
Cap4 said on: 2008-05-19 07:31 pm
3496 Days, 15 Hrs, 6 Min, 43 Sec ago
I vote hell yes to removing techies
Moonshine said on: 2008-05-19 07:58 pm
3496 Days, 14 Hrs, 39 Min, 38 Sec ago
I want to try the idea but i dont think its a great idea. I mean with techies you have to find dependable people and you really have to trust 3 other members. If you wipe em out then i just think your setting your self up for a more solo game. plus receiving tech from alliances speeds up the game. I guess you could make tech values higher to solve that problem.
Moonshine said on: 2008-05-19 08:05 pm
3496 Days, 14 Hrs, 33 Min, 3 Sec ago
But hey, you kno this game hasn't really changed too much in its whole history, yeah minor changes here and there with bug fixes. But his would be a major change, your talking some new strategies, something we have not seen in a long long time.
Nataku said on: 2008-05-19 08:06 pm
3496 Days, 14 Hrs, 31 Min, 39 Sec ago
i like this idea... since yeah it's make ppl more se;f reliant... not switching roles constantly and yeah...


you'd have too be your own player.
Battlecruiser said on: 2008-05-19 08:07 pm
3496 Days, 14 Hrs, 30 Min, 54 Sec ago
I'm sure everyone hates having to care about having good techies and the fact that their gameplay depends on someone else so much.

Vote: yes.
AK47 said on: 2008-05-19 09:11 pm
3496 Days, 13 Hrs, 26 Min, 38 Sec ago

i disagree with the idea. i think that having to depend on others helps keep interaction within the game. you tend to keep in touch with your techies. also...lets say A and B were to research the EXACT same way, because there are no techies to influence the techs, they would basically be the same. imagine what would happen if the majority of users played the EXACT same way after learning the jits of the tech value changes? whats the challenge in that? with techies, youll need to trust them to research in your favor, by being fully active, to knowing what to research and when, etc. by removing alliances(tech alliances in specific), this would take away from segregating the top players with the non-top players. in a gameplay setting, you always need that separation.

ex: if you own a sports video game, lets say you create a team and make everyone the same rating, whats the fun in that? i would think theres more fun in using a specific player to do one thing and another player to do another thing. it makes it unique.

by taking away alliances, youre making the game easier for people who just log in and play turns and not rewarding those who put more time and effort into bettering their gaming...thats what it would come to; maybe not right away, but within a few rounds when the tech values are determined and what not.

BC and i can play the exact same way but what makes our tech different come rise time is from what our techies gave us. what would be so great about BC and i having the exact same tech...let alone ALOT of people having basically the same tech? i just feel it takes away from the gameplay and makes it WAY too easy for people to just log in 2x a day as oppose to people who actually think about the type of techies that would benefit them, and what not.

*sigh*

i feel i having really gone in enough depth or havent emphasized my main points...so forgive me for my lack of typing. im more of a verbal communicator.

point is...i vote no! hopefully more people will too after they carefully think it through and notice the gray areas.

[Added at 05/19/2008 21:13:10 by AK47]

the issue was tech swapping. just publicly ban it and say whoever is caught doing it will get banned. dont change the tech alliance system over it. =/
Ayanami said on: 2008-05-19 09:23 pm
3496 Days, 13 Hrs, 15 Min, 26 Sec ago
yes, anything which changes the game will give us the advantage

it will complicate the system which will give the current round winners an even bigger advantage :)

GK type VIP only clans would have an even greater advantage, and the VIP/User gap can only increase

Sounds good to me
Sal said on: 2008-05-19 09:53 pm
3496 Days, 12 Hrs, 45 Min, 19 Sec ago
Ak, you and I both know the "real" help doesnt come from your techies but from the market. A "real" round winner has to setup farms, has to redeem money on market, he doesnt just do his turns and try to rise.




Without techies, we'll really see who's the best.


Having techies skipping turns, researching what you dont want and whatnot hapenned to me more than I can count even when I won rounds. I see no grey areas other than a very small decrease in socialization between players. But clans and chat are there for a reason.
Archer said on: 2008-05-19 10:01 pm
3496 Days, 12 Hrs, 37 Min, 14 Sec ago
I vote no.
Wolfblack said on: 2008-05-20 12:07 am
3496 Days, 10 Hrs, 30 Min, 53 Sec ago
I vote no, ban tech swapping or make techies have to last atleast 10-15 days or go the full 30
Entity-Neo said on: 2008-05-20 01:23 am
3496 Days, 9 Hrs, 15 Min, 19 Sec ago
I vote yes.

RecklessPerson said on: 2008-05-20 02:07 am
3496 Days, 8 Hrs, 31 Min, 10 Sec ago
It isn't the alliance system, it is the structure of the game. Changing a small aspect isn't going to solve the issues that nations has. But it is a system, and you cannot remove parts of the system and expect it to function properly. Instead, why not limit the amount of alliances changing per round? Or possibly adjust how the tech is applied to your own.

If you want to remove the alliance system, you should make the tech system more dynamic. Maybe researching something in combination with another will boost your tech higher than just clicking random things to research. I agree with AK. If you do that, someone will figure out a way to get optimal tech and each round will be exactly the same, every time.
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-20 02:22 am
3496 Days, 8 Hrs, 15 Min, 38 Sec ago
Each round is almost pretty much always the same already. It's basically either BC or AK or Sal(When he plays).
Moonshine said on: 2008-05-20 03:48 am
3496 Days, 6 Hrs, 49 Min, 55 Sec ago
i vote yes
GuildaMage said on: 2008-05-20 04:17 am
3496 Days, 6 Hrs, 21 Min, 25 Sec ago
It has pros and cons.

I would say lets try it out next round, but dont trash the code, as if the trial suckz0rs wed have to switch back. ;)
BmXbrigade said on: 2008-05-20 05:23 am
3496 Days, 5 Hrs, 15 Min, 22 Sec ago
sounds like ur taking the easy way out, again. Missiles were messed up, so instead of fixing you disable and forget about them, same deal here. Shame on you, instead of making a real descision on the legalities of a strategy, you decide to skirt the issue by removing them entirely.

But, its your site do whatever your lazy ass wants to.

[Added at 05/20/2008 12:45:12 by BmXbrigade]
with that said, i vote yes
Cronus said on: 2008-05-20 09:02 am
3496 Days, 1 Hr, 35 Min, 39 Sec ago
Vote : Yes!

No real loss.
Pappose said on: 2008-05-20 09:07 am
3496 Days, 1 Hr, 31 Min, 23 Sec ago
I vote no.
Roman said on: 2008-05-20 10:09 am
3496 Days, 29 Minutes, 14 Seconds ago
i vote yes
_ElessaR_ said on: 2008-05-20 10:43 am
3495 Days, 23 Hrs, 54 Min, 54 Sec ago
I vote yes.

Also:

1. Make it such a way that the military you have on hand gives tech. eg gues give 0.01 tech, tanks gives 0.05 tech etc.

That way, at rise time, anybody can just mass those they don't like to win (eg. bc or ak...), making them lose military/tech, and since military gives tech, I think this game would be much more unpredictable.
Archer said on: 2008-05-20 11:15 am
3495 Days, 23 Hrs, 22 Min, 40 Sec ago
Let's see... I have about... 30k guerrillas when i finish with military.
.01 tech each...
300 tech if my math is right...
HOLY CRAP! WE DON'T EVEN NEED TO RISE!!!!

Seriously.

Military giving tech is a bad idea.

[Added at 05/20/2008 14:06:20 by Archer]
I can already see how it is going to abused.

VIP store military in the market. 500 tech - 300 tech.

User attacks Vip. 500 tech.

50% of 500 = 250.

Vip cannot be hit. Too bad. Try again.
Sal said on: 2008-05-20 01:42 pm
3495 Days, 20 Hrs, 55 Min, 50 Sec ago
With proper balancing, troops giving tech would actually be a good thing IMO...

[Added at 05/20/2008 13:43:09 by Sal]
but then again, VIP would get too much of an advantage with troops storing, so I vote no to that :(
GuildaMage said on: 2008-05-20 01:46 pm
3495 Days, 20 Hrs, 52 Min, 35 Sec ago
I think he only wants to count troops on hand, but you are right, it could give vips yet another advantage.
_ElessaR_ said on: 2008-05-20 08:33 pm
3495 Days, 14 Hrs, 4 Min, 47 Sec ago
I forgot to mention, for it to work, disallow vips to store troops on market.

However, I don't think that will ever happen.
PinWizard said on: 2008-05-20 08:38 pm
3495 Days, 13 Hrs, 59 Min, 46 Sec ago
i vote that we keep them but impose new rules like limit the number of techie swaps per round to say u can change 3 times each slot can be changed once a round?
Beowulf24 said on: 2008-05-20 09:13 pm
3495 Days, 13 Hrs, 25 Min, 16 Sec ago
the bad part about that is if some one gose inactive it may happen a few times its happend to me
Al_capone said on: 2008-05-21 08:24 am
3495 Days, 2 Hrs, 14 Min, 28 Sec ago
Off subject,but can we get a voice chat on here?
SilverSurfer said on: 2008-05-21 02:09 pm
3494 Days, 20 Hrs, 28 Min, 48 Sec ago
Wouldn't be hard. We could get a Ventrillo connected to the server and site.
Nataku said on: 2008-05-21 02:36 pm
3494 Days, 20 Hrs, 1 Min, 58 Sec ago
*slaps SS across the face with a soggy german sausage*
Gi_joe (Vip) said on: 2008-05-22 08:06 am
3494 Days, 2 Hrs, 31 Min, 53 Sec ago
i like the idea too.
Murdock86 said on: 2008-05-22 09:39 am
3494 Days, 59 Minutes, 19 Seconds ago
i vote eliminate alliances